How boutcha? My blog has been around for a few years and I am getting back around to some of the early topics on writing. First, thank you all who have been my friends through the past few years, not only the writing process, but all of the chaos the world has been throwing at us.
One of my early blog posts was in response to people who feared critiques. https://sylviawoodham.wixsite.com/home/post/purpose-of-the-dreaded-critique
in which I wrote the kinds of questions I went into critiques seeking answers for about what was working and what wasn't. Since then, however, I've posted regularly about new projects and critiques that are certifiably off the wall. Most recently I have worked on a project set in a culture that is not my own, but I have done a lot of research and had a friend from that culture read for correctness. The problem was NOT with the native of the culture, but the people who came with assumptions about what they thought they knew about it. When it is published, I will go into greater depth about the critiques the native culture friend described as INSANE.
This brings me back to answering or addressing a different question about critiques than being afraid of exposing my work to others. I get excited for other people to read my work by now. I am feeling very confident about the quality of my writing being above average based on the feedback I get on early drafts - not making common grammatical or structural errors seen from many other writers. I will be honest, when I returned to writing two and a half years ago, this was where I expected to start and ran a gambit of people who needed me to believe my writing sucked, for whatever reasons in their insecurities. I have written in this blog the question how to improve if you cannot find people who are OK with you writing well, and actually providing support or input that actually corrects your writing instead of devolving it. (Side bar: we had a writing chat this week where I talked about devolution and observing trends in today's world to devolve the population. I used an example I appreciated from the end of season 2 of "Raised By Wolves" so I will refer you there)
The question or topic about critiques is a lot less apologetic: Can critiques be WRONG? My friend, Charles Wacther, who has worked for a few decades in television production, said his creative experience has been that all feedback should be appreciated - and that's a position he had to take starting out to make a good impression. However, at the same time, when I talk to him about exposing my projects to critique groups, he asks how I do it because writing is so personal. So which is it Wachter?
From my earliest experience with this editing community circling the industry, I definitely experienced input or feedback that was wrong about the book. However, people in my support network helped me see when I got certain feedback that might not identify the problem, to identify the critique under the critique. The problem that was being identified as not smooth in my writing. For example, an early issue was people TELLING me to start the book in a different place, and that wasn't the problem, but it was pointing to issues at the start that didn't do what the story needed to do at that point.
Since then, no one tells me I have started the story in the wrong place. I got some somewhat bizarre input recently, but it was tied to other feedback that DOES fit in the WRONG category, so that is what I want to address. There are things in feedback that are WRONG. Cultural assumptions that are incorrect! BIPOC writers are complaining a lot about this problem that exists more broadly - I have mentioned this in previous blog posts. Also grammatical, structural, or technique feedback that ignore something on the page - or, in my case, actually stated outright.
I have had some negative experiences recently. They are somewhat entertained in this regard. I have been in a small novel group through Spectrum with three men, who do a lot of mansplaining in their approach that is never present in the input or feedback I give to their books. What do I mean? Since mansplaining can be a triggering or confusing word for some people. The three men in my group are writing genre books I would NEVER write, and I acknowledge that in my input. I do not approach their chapters telling them how I would write their books. I wouldn't. That's a fact. However, their approach has a very thick feel of "this is how I would write your book," without the realisation they COULD NEVER write my book.
Because this support was not equal - I was not getting back the level or quality of feedback I was putting in - I was drawn to some courses offered about novel editing. I have written about problems three times now about some of these services being very disrespectful and unprofessional in their sales process when I am explicit about my budgetary limitations. These novel editing courses fit my budget requirements. Specifically, 1400-1700 is my total range, and I need monthly payments in the 200-300 range, so the novel editing courses fit this, and involved direction for me to create my own decisions about the book. They asked me to put on the application what I hoped to get out of it. The first thing I mentioned was improvement from this experience that had no direction with three guys just making up their own input or feedback, and hope that a directed course could improve on that. The second was something that featured heavily in their sales pitch to help me speak with confidence with industry professionals. This is a big issue for me since 90% of my experiences have been so toxic. When I say toxic, I mean to the point where these people are emotionally abusive to me when I tell them they are wrong! I am terrified of how to have healthy discussions about my work with the professionals who will work with me on the path to publication like an agent or publishing editor.
Part of my insecurities come from not wanting to seem hard to work with - but also, let me ask if these are my experiences am I the one who is the hard to work with variable in this equation? I want to seem able to take input and eager to learn, but on the flip side if my literary study and experience is greater than the people giving me input... I really need people who are really bringing something for me to learn that I do not already know. I can use an example of what that is NOT from this novel group with the three men: one area of support and input I AM looking for is if the conflict and tension is clear enough in the early chapters, so when they bring this up as needing more I TRY to pay attention. However, the level of input they provide helps me understand nothing they are saying. They have only read 30,000 words of my book but then tell me they can't remember the first chapter? This group is supposed to go through the whole manuscript, and how are they here when we get to 100,000 words if the conflict pays off based on the characters if they can't remember the first 10,000 words??
This got even worse, when one of them started trying to use GOT as an example. I read the WHOLE SERIES. I watched one episode of the TV show. But I read the series ten years ago, so I took his input seriously about introducing plot points to create tension, and put in work to go back and compare to the text when those plot points actually existed. Except that I was doing more work than he had ever done, because HE NEVER READ A SINGLE PAGE of any of the books. Let me get into this, since it's a specific example - and I am SURE a lot of fantasy conversations and writers are trying to "be like George Martin" (which I am NOT). He said "oh well there is this looming doom" and "This phrase Winter is Coming is this warning about the Whitewalkers."
Here's what actually happens in the book: the white walkers are introduced vaguely in the prologue, but "Winter is Coming" has NOTHING to do with them. The seasons last a variable number of years, not a few months. Summer can be one year or ten, and they have had summer for a very long time, and winter is due to come soon because summer can't go on forever. THAT is what Winter is Coming means. Since the seasons last several years before changing, they have lived for CENTURIES with the wall protecting them and no threat during winter from the Whitewalkers. Isn't that more than anyone needs to know about it? Well but if someone read the books, they should know that.
In contrast, I have introduced a looming threat in the prologue, and then not mentioned it as a pressing threat except for how they respond defensively to it. Seems actually very similar to Martin's treatment of it, but someone would have to READ THE BOOK, and REMEMBER MY OPENING CHAPTERS THEY READ. And this person had done neither!
Yes, indeed, a "helpful" person suggested that the input was helpful because it might tell me "my chapter wasn't memorable." which totally dismisses the problem behind the whole conversation. In fact, one of the members of the group has come out and said he had no intention of delivering helpful feedback. He was a copy writer, and because he had an uncaring boss for a job that is exacting and doesn't bear any resemblance to the personal process of creative fiction, that he should not be asked to care more about stepping up any more than comfortable to provide feedback and the level I was giving him.
In terms of the question "Is all critique good or right?" The organizer of Spectrum told me that all members are supposed to comply with this code of conduct to interact with othere members politely. One of my local writing friends who went to Oxford and is revising her gay romance, so we are in the revision trenches together, said this guy is trying to tell me "make your book more like this famous book," (which he has never read), so I have no obligation to be polite to him. So please, I am curious, how would you respond to this situation? What level of politeness is required in the writing community when another writer is this insulting? There was a more helpful word described as creating a supportive atmosphere, and the group wanted to discuss, if their critiques were well intentioned and their intentions were to be helpful, support would look like me telling them how to do better? This is where I struggle as well. I barely have enough emotional and mental energy to write this book, and I don't find it supportive to be in a situation where I do not feel supported, and then figure out how I am supposed to "support" other people by telling them how to do it better? That's a huge expectation and burden to place on me emotionally!
Then I want to include the novel editing situation. As I mentioned these experiences were entertwined, because my expectation in a response was they would say "Yes, since we provide instruction and direction, we can hopefully provide higher quality input from peers who will by guided by the instructor." This is, of course, their selling point, and something that is their job to prove to me that will be an improvement on my current situation. However, that is apparently not how THEY saw it. First of all, they made it about ME! They blamed me that these three men have been so insufferable in their mansplaining lack of effort in feedback! Blame the woman! Second, they tried to sell me their most expensive mentorship service and ignored the explicit financial restrictions I had included in the application. Third, they tried to sell me this mentorship with an example of feedback from their Director - who also went to Oxford. (I did not go to Oxford, but I went to an equivalent university of Oxford, if you get my drift.) Just because someone went to Oxford might make me think perhaps they could have as much literary knowledge as me, but clearly not an automatic assumption.
In my blog, I have written a lot about my experiences and ridiculous prescriptive BS that exists in the writing world about omniscient POV. Wachter was like "why in the world are people overthinking this? I write in omniscient. It's NBD." In included in my application that this book was written in omniscient POV, and a guided topical approach to this editing course I hoped would provide support and empower me to work out some of the techniques I'm experimenting with etc.
On this topic, the most recent 10,000 word pages these three men read included SEVERAL of the scenes that represent very strongly the omniscient pov. First there is a tantric orgy, where the thoughts of every person are needed to understand this world. This scene is DIRECTLY followed by a scene where I used George Elliot's technique of comparing the thoughts of two characters to show the difference in their personalities. Then this scene was followed by a scene that like Belle Canto has a group collective thought that is shown by the narration. The three men read these sequences and thought it was all well done in these scenes. Then decided to tell me that omniscient pov was the wrong pov for this book. The person who said this also keeps telling me he doesn't like the prologue! My eyes are rolling pretty hard here. Which is it dude? So all of these scenes that portray omniscient pov are spot on, and you approve, but you think the book is not in omniscient pov? Got it. I'll show myself out. This is an example of neither having critique that is correct NOR providing any constructive input. This is an example where I would say the critique is just wrong.
Given that backdrop, I received this example "free" feedback from Cornerstones about my application for this novel course, from their director, who is supposed to represent the highest quality level of mentorship or editors on their staff. Her critique started with a compliment: she was immersed in the world. It also included some unhelpful generalisations about how fantasy started in action or in world exposure, which did nothing for me based on the pages I sent her. Then it said "there is a pov slip." This business who wants to sell me something sent this as an example of their BEST QUALITY editors available for this high cost service that I already told them was financially impossible for me!
These are the questions I have asked here:
- How to handle critiques that are WRONG? The reality that sometimes some critiques are not helpful and do not reveal anything about the project that needs to be addressed.
- How to learn to be professional in communicating confidently about my project? Getting zero practice there!
- What level of being polite is required when there is so little effort to provide correct input or feedback about your work? When the actual feedback is an insulting level of lack of knowledge presented as expert input, or blatantly ignoring information that has been provided?
Please, share your opinions about some of the questions I've asked here!
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